Anderson movie

by John Accomando

Feb 23, 2013

Is Steven Anderson’s movie entirely correct?

I PMd this to a brother last evening who knows Anderson well, so I might as well post it here, as I put a great deal of time into it. I don’t see it as being a big deal, except when pressed by those who might argue that prewrath has no flaws.

I see the rapture as as post-trib for a number of reasons. Prewrath and posttrib both agree that the Day of the Lord (DOTL) is the “wrath” which we’re “not appointed to”. One of the main differences is regarding the chronology of the judgments. Prewrath generally says that they’re chronological. Anderson, however, sees the trumpets and vials unfolding in lockstep with each other after the seals, so he throws in a little twist. Posttrib (for the most part), on the other hand, doesn’t see the judgments as being chronological.

I certainly can’t speak for every posttribber, but from my own studies, the 6th/7th seal, 7th trumpet, and 7th vial must occur simultaneously, for a few reasons:

1)The most obvious is that the Lord is only coming back one more time; not two. He said that the resurrection will be at “the last day” (John 6:40). Pretrib says that there is a multiphasic resurrection, and the first part of it is seen Matthew 27:52. They claim that “Phase 2” is at a pretrib rapture. While that’s nonsense, prewrath makes a similar argument by saying that “the last day” isn’t at the end of the 70th week, but somewhere in between the Abomination of Desolation (AoD) and the end of the “week”. That’s not “the last day”.

2)The Lord said that He would come like a “thief” (Matthew 24:44). Paul likewise describes the DOTL as coming like a “thief” (1 Thess 5:2). Again, prewrathers and posttribbers agree that we’re spared the DOTL. However, prewrath disregards the fact that the Lord is still telling us to “watch” for His coming like a “thief” even as late as the 6th vial (regardless as to whether one believes the judgments are chronological or not, everyone would agree that the 6th vial is one of the last before the Lord’s post-70th week return):

Revelation 16:15- “Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.”

So we’re still here even through the vials.

3)In Acts 3:20 and 21, Peter is clear that the Lord will remain in Heaven until “the restitution of all things”:

Acts 3:20-21: “And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.”

When is the “restitution of all things”? At the completion of the 70th week:

Daniel 9:24- “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.”

4)In Isaiah 2:17, we’re told that the “Lord alone shall be exalted” (on the DOTL):

Isaiah 2:17- “And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day.”

Yet we know that during the 70th week, the AC is being exalted by the world. What’s more, not only is the AC being exalted, but the wicked are even blaspheming the Lord even through the vials:

Revelation 16:9- “And men were scorched with great heat, and BLASPHEMED the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented NOT to give him glory.”

Revelation 16:11- “And BLASPHEMED the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented NOT of their deeds.”

The “Lord alone” will be exalted at His literal, visible, post-70th week return, which will be Armageddon to the wicked:

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10: “And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.”

5) The Lord compared His return to the days of Lot/Sodom and Noah/the flood. What happened to the wicked for both of those events? They were completely and briskly destroyed. Yet we know that scores of wicked not only are alive and well at the end of the tribulation, but they’re even gathering together against Him at Armageddon at the 6th vial:

Revelation 16:14- “For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.”

Do you see the point? Incidentally, as I pointed out previously, that’s also the same vial in which the Lord is telling us to “watch” for His coming like a “thief”:

Revelation 16:15- “Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.”

6) What does Scripture say about our “reward”?

Revelation 22:12- “And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.”

When are we told that we get this reward? At the 7th trumpet:

Revelation 11:18- “And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.”

So if He is bringing our reward WITH Him, and that clearly happens at the 7th trumpet, how can prewrath suppose that we’re raptured at the 6th seal (in a chronological framework)? Does He bring our reward with Him, take us back to Heaven, and withhold that reward from us until all of the trumpets are complete (including a 5-month long 5th trumpet judgment)?

Wouldn’t that relegate Revelation 22:12 to an anticlimactic announcement?

7) What else happens at the 6th seal?

Revelation 6:13-14: “And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And THE HEAVEN DEPARTED AS A SCROLL WHEN IT IS ROLLED TOGETHER; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.”

Now look at the OT verses it’s taken from:

Isaiah 34:1-5: “Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it. For the indignation of the Lord is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter. Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and THE HEAVENS SHALL BE ROLLED TOGETHER AS A SCROLL: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.”

So the “rolling together” is described, as well as the stars falling from heaven. But notice it also says that the Lord’s fury is upon all their “armies”, and also that His “sword shall be bathed”. So while the “heavenly signs” of Isaiah 34:1-5 match up with Revelation 6:13 and 14, we know that this can’t happen at the 6th seal in a chronological framework, because the Lord’s fury isn’t upon their “armies” until Armageddon. The armies aren’t even gathered together against Him until after the 6th vial:

Revelation 16:12-14: “And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.”

Which, again, is also when the Lord tells us to “watch” for His coming like a “thief”:

Revelation 16:15- “Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.”

There are a few sets of verses which speak of the Lord personally destroying His enemies:

Matthew 24:50-51: “The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut Him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites:there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8: “And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:”

Revelation 19:15- “And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations:and he shall rule them with a rod of iron:and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.”

Revelation 19:21- “And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth:and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”

So Scripture seems to not only tie the resurrection/rapture to the “heavenly signs”, but it also seems to place the heavenly signs at the very end of the week, heralding the Lord’s emergence out of Heaven at His glorious appearing, for His saints (with us watching even after the 6th vial), and utter destruction for His enemies at Armageddon. This would also explain the Lord’s enemies blaspheming the Lord and still unrepentant during the vials:

Revelation 16:9- “And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues:and they repented not to give him glory.”

…but suddenly petrified with fear at the 6th seal (you can only conceptualize this if you unlearn what you’ve always been taught is true, but it should eventually make sense). Why are they petrified with fear? Because gathered together against Him at the 6th vial, they see Him emerge out of Heaven (as described in Revelation 19:14-21), and run for cover:

Revelation 6:15-17: “And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”

Do you see the points? This comes at the end; not the beginning (in my opinion). Just as a historical note, there is evidence that the early church fathers knew the judgments to be nonsequential as well:

Victorinus:

“[A]lthough the same thing recurs in the phials [vials], still it is not said as if it occurred twice, but because what is decreed by the Lord to happen shall be once for all; for this cause it is said twice. What, therefore, He said too little in the trumpets, is here found in the phials [vials]. We must not regard the order of what is said, because frequently the Holy Spirit, when He has traversed even to the end of the last times, returns again to the same times, and fills up what He had before failed to say. Nor must we look for order in the Apocalypse; but we must follow the meaning of those things which are prophesied.”16

8) There is no “glorious appearing” between the 6th and 7th seal. As a matter of fact, there isn’t so much as a mention of the Lord even leaving at that point in time.

9) While prewrath (like pretrib) claims that the Lord comes for us at His 2nd coming, and comes “with” us at His “3rd coming”, the Lord never described anyone other than His angels returning with Him at His post-70th week return:

Matthew 16:27- “For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his ANGELS; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.”

Matthew 25:31- “When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the HOLY ANGELS with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:”

Mark 8:38- “Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the HOLY ANGELS.”

Luke 9:26- “For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the HOLY ANGELS.”

Let this sink in for a minute. Wouldn’t that be an odd omission by the Lord if we really do come back with Him? Did He forget? Was it an oversight on His part? Of course not. We ought to stop imagining that He would have left a crucial detail like that out. He knew who He was returning from Heaven with, and He told us. Hermeneutically, we need to see what the Lord said FIRST, then build other verses around His words.

Notice that Paul reiterates what the Lord said:

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8: “And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from HEAVEN with his MIGHTY ANGELS, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:”

10) Remember that Paul described the “son of perdition” being destroyed by the “brightness” of the Lord’s coming:

2 Thessalonians 2:8- “And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall DESTROY with the brightness of his coming:”

John detailed the same event:

Revelation 19:20- “And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.”

Yet prewrath has the Lord coming, fetching us, returning to Heaven with us, and coming back months to years later, with the AC alive and well during that time span. So (like pretrib), it has to manufacture an additional coming of the Lord in which the AC is not “destroyed”.

11) Scripture tells us precisely how long the saints will be persecuted by the AC:

Daniel 7:25- “And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.”

That’s 42 months, yet prewrath claims that it’s not telling us that the saints will be persecuted for 42 months; only that “times and laws” are given into the ACs hands for 42 months. I believe the text is clear enough without trying to chop it in two pieces.

Revelation 13:5-7: “And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them:and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.”

That’s 42 months, yet prewrath claims that the beast is only blaspheming for 42 months (rather than the overcoming of the saints). As with Daniel 7:25, that requires a dissection of those verses.

Prewrath tries to justify this by citing a verse in Matthew 24:

Matthew 24:22- “And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.”

In light of Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:5-7 (as well as every other reason I’ve given), that cannot mean that we’re going to be raptured prior to the end of the 70th week. It therefore is likely a hypothetical statement (that were the time of the Great Tribulation longer than 3.5 years, no flesh would be saved).

Other verses cited by prewrath:

Matthew 24:36- “But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.”

Matthew 24:42- “Watch therefore:for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.”

Matthew 24:44- “Therefore be ye also ready:for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.”

While I think this is actually prewrath’s best argument, we’ve already seen the Lord telling us to “watch” for His coming like a “thief” even after the 6th vial. So how can no one know the day or hour? First of all, remember that Paul said that the DOTL would only come upon the wicked like a “thief”. Why? Because they’re not watching:

1 Thessalonians 5:4- “But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.”

Still, it seems as if the Lord is indeed saying that no one can know the day or hour. How can that be? Well, we know that the Lord fulfilled the spring feasts (Passover, unleavened bread, firstfruits, and feast of weeks) with His first coming (with the Holy Spirit coming at Pentecost/feast of weeks). The next feast on the prophetic calendar is the Feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hashana). In Jewish idiom, it’s my understanding that it’s referred to as the feast which “no one knows the day or hour”. Why? Because every year, it requires two watchmen on the wall looking for the moon. The reason it’s pertinent is because the new moon can only be narrowed down to a 2-day time span on any given year. Only when the two watchmen announce they both see it can the Feast actually begin.

Lo and behold, in Revelation, we read of the “two witnesses” prophesying for 1,260 days before they’re killed by the beast. They lie in the streets for 3.5 days, and the Spirit of God enters into them. They rise to their feet and are called “up hither”. The very next trumpet is the 7th trumpet, and it’s at that time that the 24 elders announce that the time for the dead to be judged has come, as well as the time for the prophets and saints to be rewarded:

Revelation 11:18- “And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.”

Also bear in mind that just prior to this last scene unfolding, the world is displaying a false sense of security (“peace and safety”) at the deaths of the two witnesses:

Revelation 11:10- “And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.”

Interestingly enough, in a writing which pretribulationists cling to as indicative of a pretrib rapture (“Pseudo-Ephraem”, which is a late 7th-8th century anonymous writing), even the author claimed that the time which “no one knows the day or hour” is the end of the “week”:

“And when the three and a half years have been completed, the time of the Antichrist, through which he will have seduced the world, after the resurrection of the two prophets, in the hour which the world does not know, and on the day which the enemy of son of perdition does not know, will come the sign of the Son of Man, and coming forward the Lord shall appear with great power and much majesty.”

12) Lastly, there is no question that from a historical perspective, the early church fathers wrote that we would be here for the full 3.5 years. Many of the ECFs were only one generation removed from the apostles themselves, or taught by the disciples of the apostles:

Justin, Dialog with Trypho, CX

“[T]wo advents of Christ have been announced: the one, in which He is set forth as suffering, inglorious, dishonored, and crucified; but the other, in which He shall come from heaven with glory,when the man of apostasy, who speaks strange things against the Most High, shall venture to do unlawful deeds on the earth against us the Christians,…”

Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book V, XXV, 3

“‘And its ten horns are ten kings which shall arise; and after them shall arise another, who shall surpass in evil deeds all that were before him, and shall overthrow three kings; and he shall speak words against the most high God, and wear out the saints of the most high God, and shall purpose to change times and laws; and [everything] shall be given into his hand until a time of times and a half time,’ that is, for three years and six months, during which time, when he comes, he shall reign over the earth. Of whom also the Apostle Paul again, speaking in the second [Epistle] to the Thessalonians, and at the same time proclaiming the cause of his advent, thus says: ‘And then shall the wicked one be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus shall slay with the spirit of His mouth, and destroy by the presence of His coming.'”

Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book V, XXV, 4

“And then he points out the time that his tyranny shall last, during which the saints shall be put to flight, they who offer a pure sacrifice unto God: ‘And in the midst of the week,’ he says, ‘the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away, and the abomination of desolation [shall be brought] into the temple: even unto the consummation of the time shall the desolation be complete.’ Now three years and six months constitute the half-week.”

Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book V, XXX, 4

“But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that “many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”

Tertullian, On the Resurrection of the Flesh, XXV

“In the Revelation of John, again, the order of these times is spread out to view, which ‘the souls of the martyrs’ are taught to wait for beneath the altar, whilst they earnestly pray to be avenged and judged: (taught, I say, to wait), in order that the world may first drink to the dregs the plagues that await it out of the vials of the angels, and that the city of fornication may receive from the ten kings its deserved doom, and that the beast Antichrist with his false prophet may wage war on the Church of God; and that, after the casting of the devil into the bottomless pit for a while, the blessed prerogative of the first resurrection may be ordained from the thrones; and then again, after the consignment of him to the fire, that the judgment of the final and universal resurrection may be determined out of the books. Since, then, the Scriptures both indicate the stages of the last times, and concentrate the harvest of the Christian hope in the very end of the world,…”

Hippolytus, Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, 47

“For this is meant by the little horn that grows up. He, being now elated in heart, begins to exalt himself, and to glorify himself as God, persecuting the saints and blaspheming Christ, even as Daniel says, ‘I considered the horn, and, behold, in the horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things; and he opened his mouth to blaspheme God. And that born made war against the saints, and prevailed against them until the beast was slain, and perished, and his body was given to be burned.’

Hippolytus, Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, 61

“That refers to the one thousand two hundred and threescore days (the half of the week) during which the tyrant is to reign and persecute the Church, which flees from city to city, and seeks conceal-meat in the wilderness among the mountains,…”

Appendix to the Works of Hippolytus, XXV

“For when Daniel said, ‘I shall make my covenant for one week,’ he indicated seven years; and the one half of the week is for the preaching of the prophets, and for the other half of the week that is to say, for three years and a half Antichrist will reign upon the earth. And after this his kingdom and his glory shall be taken away. Behold, ye who love God, what manner of tribulation there shall rise in those days, such as has not been from the foundation of the world, no, nor ever shall be, except in those days alone. Then the lawless one, being lifted up in heart, will gather together his demons in man’s form, and will abominate those who call him to the kingdom, and will pollute many souls.”

Victorinus, Commentary on the Apocalypse, 20:1

“The little season signifies three years and six months, in which with all his power the devil will avenge himself trader Antichrist against the
Church.”

Constitutions of the Holy Apostles, Book VII, Sec. II, XXXII

“For in the last days false prophets shall be multiplied, and such as corrupt the word; and the sheep shall be changed into wolves, and love into hatred: for through the abounding of iniquity the love of many shall wax cold. For men shall hate, and persecute, and betray one another. And then shall appear the deceiver of the world, the enemy of the truth, the prince of lies, whom the Lord Jesus ‘shall destroy with the spirit of His mouth, who takes away the wicked with His lips; and many shall be offended at Him. But they that endure to the end, the same shall be saved. And thenshall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven;’ and afterwards shall be the voice of a trumpet by the archangel; and in that interval shall be the revival of those that were asleep. And then shall the Lord come, and all His saints with Him, with a great concussion above the clouds, with the angels of His power, in the throne of His kingdom, to condemn the devil, the deceiver of the world, and to render to every one according to his deeds. ‘Then shall the wicked go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous shall go into life eternal,’ to inherit those things ‘which eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart of man, such things as God hath prepared for them that love Him;’ and they shall rejoice in the kingdom of God, which is in Christ Jesus.”

These are the reasons why I see posttrib as the only possibility, and why the 6th/7th seal, 7th trumpet, and 7th vial occur simultaneously.

 

SAnderson

The following is from http://www.faithfulwordbaptist.org/page2.html

Pastor Steven Anderson was born and raised in Sacramento, CA. At age 18, he traveled throughout Germany and Eastern Europe for 3 months serving in local independent Baptist churches, studying foreign languages, and getting experience in the ministry. It was on this trip that he met his future wife, Zsuzsanna, while out soul-winning in the streets of Munich, Bavaria. He eventually lead her to the Lord, and they were married shortly thereafter. They have been married for over 13 years, and God has blessed them with 7 beautiful children.

 

Pastor Anderson started Faithful Word Baptist Church on December 25, 2005. He holds no college degree but has well over 140 chapters of the Bible memorized word-for-word, including approximately half of the New Testament. Today, most Baptist churches are started by Bible colleges. However, the Bible makes it clear that the church is the pillar and ground of the truth, not a school. Faithful Word Baptist Church is a totally independent Baptist church, and Pastor Anderson was sent out by a totally independent Baptist church to start it the old-fashioned way by knocking doors and winning souls to Christ.

 

God has blessed Faithful Word Baptist Church tremendously. Thousands have been saved, many have been baptized, and many more have learned to win souls both door-to-door and in their daily lives.

Post Categories: Guest post, study, tribulation

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